Not to Bow
“And all the servants of the King that were in the gate of the King kneeled and bowed to Haman but Mordechai would not kneel nor would he bow” (Esther 3:2)
Mordechai’s refusal to bow infuriated Haman. It infuriated him to the degree that he was moved to destroy all of Mordechai’s people.
It seems that the Jewish refusal to bow does not sit well with God’s enemies. These people see the Jewish refusal to bow as legalistic, arrogant, and self-centered. Why can’t you be like everyone else? Everyone else is inspired by the wealth of Haman, by the power of Caesar or by the mystery of Jesus. Why does the Jew have to stand apart?
This is the question that fueled the fires of hate for generations. This question was in the mind of the Crusaders, the Inquisitors and the propagandists who inspired their crimes. They see the Jewish refusal to bend to the allures of finite existence as a smug disdain for the rest of humanity. Everyone else sees the reason that we need to bend and kneel to Jesus, why can’t the Jew just join us?
But nothing could be further from the truth. The Jews refusal to bend is not rooted in a disdain for humanity, it is rooted in a deep belief in humanity. You see the Jew believes that no human should bend to the beauty, the wealth, the mystery, the righteousness or the power that is contained in finite existence. The Jew believes that humans have a greater calling than submitting themselves to servants. The Jew looks forward to the day when all of mankind will bend to the One Creator of all (Isaiah 2:17).
While God’s absolute sovereignty is hidden from the hearts of men the Jew is called to be God’s witness (Isaiah 43:10). It is our duty toward God and man not to kneel and not to bow. It is our duty to testify that every last man woman and child can approach the Father without the services of another subject of God. Our testimony is that the happiness of man will be found when we recognize that we are all recipients of God’s love and that our deepest joy is to acknowledge this simple truth with every breath of life.
The Jew’s refusal to bow is not a reflection of arrogance or disdain; it is a reflection of love and reverence. It is an invitation to see every facet of finite existence as a recipient of God’s love. And it is a declaration of God’s absolute mastery over all.
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Thank You
Yisroel C. Blumenthal
1000 Verses - a project of Judaism Resources 
Inspiring!
R’ Blumenthal,
As a non-Jew, I am thankful for the Jewish people for their refusal to bow, for being a light in the darkness, and preserving the knowledge of God in the world. Thank you for your efforts to preserve the truth on this website and elsewhere.
Jim
Salvation and redemtion comes from the Lord God of Israel Himself. A statute that only God can do. The nation of Israel themselves are not equal to God. You put yourself on a high pedestal. You talk not to bow, but want people to bow to you.
I feel the love again brothers and sisters. Feel it with me.
Good point, Yehuda. Christians love to call us (Pharisees) hypocrites, but who’s being a hypocrite now, preaching love and practicing hate?
Dina and Yehuda, well said!
Paul,
You are raving.
After you calm down, and after you apologize for your ugly and mendacious rants, and if you can keep a civil tongue in your head, I will be happy to carry on a conversation with you in which we both seek the truth.
Otherwise, good bye.
I mean, good bye from me personally. Others might be interested in continuing to talk to you, but not I.
Are you somehow confusing ” the Jews refuse to bend” ” the Jew believes that human” ” the Jew look forward” ” the Jew is called to be” ” the Jews refusal to bow” as some kind of a pedestal because of the word “Jew” and not the word “WE”? The recognition of who they are and their unique role in life, in history, would i be incorrect to say their part in the covenant with god, some how equates to their desire to have others bow? Maybe it is you who wishes them to bow to you? What is your unique place in history, why can’t they change to love your god? Why don’t they just accept your facts, why don’t they just bow to your god?
This was to Paul
I am sick, sick, sick, sick of all the slander that Christians speak against the Pharisees. I will always love Jesus. However, when Christians speak evil against the Jewish religious leaders, this turns me against Christianity and inspires me to have even more respect for Judaism. Paul, it is people like you who discourage me from going to church and having fellowship with Christians.
Marylin, why, oh, why, does it bother you when Christians slander the Pharisees, but you love Jesus who did the same? From whom do you think Christians learned their hatred of the Pharisees?
This makes me so sad!
How can you love a man in whose name so many millions of our people were persecuted, even unto death?
Jesus is like the prophets in the Tanakh. He was criticizing the corruption that he saw in the religious leadership of his day just as I am sure that he would criticize the corruption that is in the church. Jesus is a fellow Jew and loves us. His only motive was to make sure that G-d is honored. However, it is hypocritical for Christians to point the finger at Pharisees when the church has its own sin and corruption.
Unlike the prophets in Tanach, Jesus was not accepted by the Jewish people. Unlike the prophets in Tanach, he does not see himself as part of the Jewish people (John’s Jesus is practically a gentile, and he lumps all Jews together, as in, all Jews are children of the devil). Jesus blames Jews for all murders, including Abel’s, which occurred before the nation of Israel was born.
Unlike the prophets in Tanach, he directs the people to himself, rather than only to God. Can you imagine Moses or Isaiah telling the people to “believe in me” or to do something “for my sake”?
Finally, Jesus’s criticisms were written down and disseminated to the gentiles, not the Jews.
Paul had some quite nasty things to say about all the Jews as well.
Tell me, Marilyn, are there famous Christian leaders or clergy from the time of the early church fathers until, say, about 1600, that you admire? I would be curious if the answer is yes, and if so, what their names are.
May God Who is the Father of us all lead us in the light of His truth.
Marilyn,
I appreciate how you feel, but I must disagree. When Jesus holds the Jewish people responsible for the blood of all innocents from Abel (who preceded the Jewish people by quite some time) to Zechariah, he is not speaking at all like the prophets. He is speaking hateful words which have echoed through millenia, contributing to a hatred of the Jews.
Moreover, the gospels were given to non-Jews, filled with the slander of the Pharisees and the Jewish people in general. I (who am a non-Jew, but hold that the Torah is true) was having a discussion yesterday with a man regarding the reliability of the NT. And after I’d made several arguments regarding where the NT distorts the Torah and the Prophets, and how Jesus did not fulfill the one sign he’d offered the Pharisees (and is thus not a true prophet), the man did not try to show me how I was wrong. Rather, he attacked the Pharisees, saying that they took the Ten Commandments and made them 660-something. Forgetting how silly his statement is, inasmuch as there are clearly more than ten commandments in the Torah, etc., where did he get the notion that the Pharisees are hateful distorters of the Word of God, laying heavy burdens upon men? He got that from the NT, which was disseminated to the non-Jewish world, filled with slanderous indictments upon the Pharisees and the Jews themselves.
The words of Jesus, calling them, not children of Abraham but children of the devil, murderous, just as he is, were given to the Church. And that characterization of the Jewish people has shaped the Church’s view of the Jewish people for two millenia, or close to it. I understand that Jesus also talks about loving one’s neighbor, and other things with which most of us agree, but he also said some of the most hateful things ever said about the Jewish people, which were then given over to those already inclined to hate them. His words fueled hundreds of years of oppression and give a direct path to the Holocaust. Whatever good words he might have said cannot erase the horrors perpetrated because of his hate speech.
One last point, if I may. You might be inclined to say that he never intended for his words to inspire hatred. But the very source of the good words you love him for are also the source of those hate speeches. You cannot separate the one from the other. The same work that inspires love of Jesus inspires hatred of the Jew. They come from the same gospels. You cannot extricate one from the other. It may be time for you to reevaluate your love for Jesus. It may be time to recognize that you have only been focused on one side of him, while ignoring the side that causes discomfort.
I wish you well,
Jim
You Know the crusades where actually commissioned In GOD’s name, if your referring to the crusades
But it was actually just the pope not GOD
Hi Elias,
I wonder why you thought I was referring to the Crusades. I was in fact referring to two thousand years of Christian oppression of the Jewish people, which amounted to millions of deaths over the centuries. For some reason, Christians think that the only oppression of the Jewish people at Christian hands occurred during the Crusades and the Inquisition. Bad as those were, I wish that were all.
At any rate, Crusaders killed Jews because they killed/rejected Jesus. Do you deny that?
“The Jew believes that humans have a greater calling than submitting themselves to servants.”
Apparently there were some exceptions to the above, as noted here.
Joshua 5:13 – 15
“13 Once when Joshua was by Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing before him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you one of us, or one of our adversaries?” 14 He replied, “Neither; but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and he said to him, “What do you command your servant, my lord?” 15 The commander of the army of the Lord said to Joshua, “Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy.” And Joshua did so.”
Genesis 42: 6
“Now Joseph was governor over the land; it was he who sold to all the people of the land. And Joseph’s brothers came and bowed themselves before him with their faces to the ground.”
David
Bowing to a servant of God in recognition that God granted this entity honor and power as a gift is not a contradiction to Israel’s calling or to the calling of the gentiles – after all – Isaiah spoke of this honor being rendered to Israel in the Messianic age – Isaiah 60:12. What I spoke of in my article was complete submission of the type that is only appropriate toward the Master of all. While Haman may have not been demanding that submission (and this is not clear) but bending to him would mean accepting his evil – hence the comparison – my point was be careful before you bend.
In any case – Dina’s rebuke to you that you study Hebrew has been reinforced by this comment of yours – the word “worship” does not appear in the Hebrew of Joshua 5:14
Reblogged this on 1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources.
After reading the negative responses to Rabbi B I thought of my own life experiences with Christians. I say to Paul, You certainly sound like you believe that it is proper for Christians to attempt conversion of Jews to the faith of Jesus. Are you then amongst those early church fathers who forbid Jews to practice their faith? My Father had to listen to a gospel message in order to sit in a Synagogue and worship. I have never heard of the opposite where Christians had to listen to a Rabbi share his faith. Paul you choose to listen to Rabbi B. I wonder what sort of Christian you are. Certainly not one who turns the other cheek as you have just shown. Nor are you one that genuinely cares for Jewish souls as sincere Christians do. You rather want to snipe at us because we do not worship Jesus. Well sorry about that. Maybe you should attempt to understand why. I suggest you read more of the so called Old Testament where we who are Jews are warned again and again not to worship a man or be in danger of death
(Deuteronomy 13). I know reject Jesus and Go to hell do not pass go, do not collect the $200.
So I say sincerely to you…..if you are wrong you are guilty of the same idolatry. Where will you
spend eternity?
I have the same thing to say that I said last year when I read this: Inspiring!
The anti-Messiah from Dan’s tribe…
The Messiah Yahshuo once asked his disciples: Who people think I am? Some responded John the Baptist, others Eliyah… Peter confessed that He was the Messiah the son of ELOHAY
The quality of the son is to be seen in reference to the humanity of the Messiah accomplishing all justice to open us the way to become also sons of the Elohim (bene Elohim). The incarnation of the Messiah is the mercy given to men in order for them to become sons of the Elohim through the son Messiah Yahushuo. For in the Messiah YAHUSHUO which name means YAHUWEH saves his people, His seed is planted in the virgin Land of the womb of Maryam in order to produce the Messiah Savior of Israel. We see the one Elohim descending from the heavens revealing himself in the form of a man, this ultimate mercy shows us the infinite love of the Elohim for his people created the last, called to be the first by pure liberty of his love.
But to this plan the enemy is to make opposition to the elevation of men, all his snares are to impede men wanting to enter the narrow path. Therefore the anti-Messiah must come from the tribe of Dan for he will be a viper by the path… as prophesied in the Torah: Genesis 49 v.17 Here the path is the path of the Messiah, a viper by the path means that he is there to hinder the march of those who follow the path.
Here is the prophecy from Genesis 49 concerning Dan and his descendants:
“Dan shall judge his people
As one of the tribes of Israel.
17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way,
A viper by the path,
That bites the horse’s heels
So that its rider shall fall backward.
18 I have waited for your salvation, O Lord!
Why Dan is this viper? The definition of a viper will shed light from where also should come forth the anti-Messiah: ”any of several venomous Old World snakes of the genus Vipera, especially V. berus, a small snake common in northern Eurasia.”
Northern Eurasia is the territory of the actual Russia. It is the territory of the mission of the apostle Andrew identified with Dan and his lost away descendants who mixed with the sons of Yaphet. North of the Danube is also the territory identified with Dan. This fact corroborates the prophecy of Ezechiel on Gog from Magog where the territory of Magog refers to all northern territory North of Israel. Where the ROSH the Head of the North shall lead many nations against Israel.
To this the Eternal Elohei of Israel will send Eliyah Hanavi (the Prophet) to combat the deceptions and snares of Babylon:
Excerpt from the little Book of the Apocalypse: Revelation of Eliyah p.16:
”But in Yerushala’im a rejection from part of the nation to be appropriated by foreign nations transforming the true religion in an alien expression of faith estranged to the Yehudim, where even the date of birth of the Messiah was changed and concealed by the workers of Babylon by the deeds of Nicolaitans to please pagans and emperors instead of the one Elohim in his unchanging feasts. Therefore the divide was consummated preventing the union of Israel with Yehudah until the days of the end where in a final spiritual combat the revelation of Eliyah will put everything in order:
11 The moreover being set apart he said to them: “Eliyah truly is coming first and will restore all. (Matthew, chap. 17)
What does your post have to do with any of the above. Instead of confronting questions and giving concrete answers you jump to and fro in order to avoid any such encounter. How interesting.
More cut and paste
http://eliyah-return.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2014-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2015-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=6
I’ve tried, myself, to find such a reference. It would be unlikely someone would post SO much and not to do elsewhere. We can now do some more reading and come with more questions, no doubt. Good job.
How interesting you condemn the Nicolaitans yet USE their canonized books. If they were good enough to determine WHICH text comprises the Xtian bible why are they not correct in other matters.
Sharbano the Nicolaitans that I am talking about is a code name that included our perverted leaders in the second temple era. They are all workers of Babylon who tampers with the true meaning of Scriptures.
8
“How can you say, ‘We are wise,
And the law of the Lord is with us’?
Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.
9
The wise men are ashamed,
They are dismayed and taken.
Behold, they have rejected the word of the Lord;
So what wisdom do they have?
10
Therefore I will give their wives to others,
And their fields to those who will inherit them;
Because from the least even to the greatest
Everyone is given to covetousness;
From the prophet even to the priest
Everyone deals falsely.
11
For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people slightly,
Saying, ‘Peace, peace!’
When there is no peace.
12
Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
No! They were not at all ashamed,
Nor did they know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
In the time of their punishment
They shall be cast down,” says the Lord. (Jeremiah 8)
When and WHO was the intended audience of Jeremiah. This is a concrete example of a Xtian taking words out of context. They want to make a point and use whatever says something similar and says G-d is referring to such and such a person. This is THE MOST disingenuous use of scripture that anyone could propose. Xtians as yourself want to apply scripture to anyone who is Torah observant and fails to agree with you. In every context that is brought it invariably is speaking NOT of Torah observant Jews but those who do Just the opposite. Needless to say it would be more proper to apply it to those Jews who follow after other gods, such as Xtianity. In other words Jeremiah would be speaking to the Xtians of His Day.
Sharbano Jeremiah words are prophetic and from Eloah therefore their lesson transcend time and space. You know that but you can not stand it.
Plus this verse is suited for your kind when you look at the Hebrew a future tense is employed reinforcing the words as being applicable also for future generations of deceptive scribes:
אֵיכָה תֹאמְרוּ חֲכָמִים אֲנַחְנוּ וְתוֹרַת יְהוָה אִתָּנוּ אָכֵן הִנֵּה לַשֶּׁקֶר עָשָׂה עֵט שֶׁקֶר סֹפְרִים
8“How will you say, ‘We are wise, and the Torah of YHWH is with us surely
Look to deception a pen is made a deception of scribes … ”
Once again you have indicted yourself and Xtianity. It is the Xtian scribes who are at fault with their false teaching.
Sharbano your scribes manipulated the true Torah. The proof of that lies in a post that I keep putting here and that each time you and your fellows divert for people not to see.
You and Yisroel never answered me about NUMBERS 12 verse 8:
Here is the Hebrew: פֶּה אֶל־פֶּה אֲדַבֶּר־בּוֹ וּמַרַאֶה וַלֹא בְחִידֹת וּתְמֻנַת יַהוָה יַבִּיט
”Mouth to mouth I will speak in(with) him and appearance(sight) not in mystery
In a form of YHWH he will look …”
WHO IS THAT FORM OF YHWH ??
WHAT MOUTH TO MOUTH MEANS??
Be honest try to respond and if you can admit your lies and deceits concerning all the passages relating to the Eternal Messiah the Dabar in the Flesh Master of Time and Space…
Repent and may be you will be part in the reign of Israel!!
Lion, several of us have responded several times and you have completely ignored us. If you can’t answer, maybe that should make you think twice about your position.
Don’t EVEN dare to suggest you know Hebrew Now. Before you wrote this as “face to face”. All you needed to do is LOOK at the words you put down to see that was incorrect. You did this Not only once but several times. Maybe, just maybe someone could make a mistake in writing but not time after time. Since you don’t understand Hebrew, let alone “biblical” Hebrew it is certain you aren’t capable of understanding the nuances of Hebrew Torah. In order to “Educate” YOU the principle of “mouth to mouth” is no difficulty. Torah has told us many times that G-d speaks to Moshe in the same manner as I would speak to a person beside me. We would hear each others words. With all others G-d speaks in visions and dreams. That’s all there is to the matter. Quite simple, for even an uneducated Jew. The form you are so concerned of is told to us IN the text itself.
Face to face translation came from NKJV I went to check the Hebrew text and the word are more intimate here MOUTH TO MOUTH which reinforce the intimacy of Mosheh and Elohim.
But again concerning THE FORM OF YHWH you are being extremely vague for you are cornered you and Dina and Yisroel… Perpetuating again the lie that the Eternal Messiah the Son of ELOHAY the Dabar Elohim in the Flesh is not the Form of YHWH.
You are liars and sons of Lie distorting Torah to fit your sect view. You are not even a religion but a old sect of the time of 2nd temple era like many sect like the gnostics (s.societies) and the jehovah witnesses and all non-trinitarian (Arianism) you have been preserved to be crushed when the One Israel will reign in the world to come and the true Religion will be light to world…
For it is written in Psalm 110:
The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies! (NKJV)
You Went To Check? You had the Hebrew text RIGHT THERE. All one had to do is LOOK at it, and read the words. You are trying to be crafty.
How is it vague to read the text. You had difficulty with “mouth to mouth” and how simple was that. It says What the form was. Is it too hard for you. Your problem is that you WANT it to be something else.
How would YOU know what ANY Jewish sect believes. You have Never Ever studied Jewish Tradition, as per your own admission. You also don’t know what the Second Temple Jews believed either. So you can’t come here claiming knowledge of Torah when you have none. All you have done is read the Xtian text and “ASSUME” you know what Torah is all about. You are not alone in this. Many a Xtian believes they understand what Torah is all about. They aren’t even knowledgeable regarding the Ten Commandments.
According to every Xtian bible they have J’sus quoting this Psalm in the same way as you have here. If you knew Hebrew you would never ever write “The L-rd said to my lord”. I daresay if those who heard J’sus actually say these words they surely must have laughed at him, under their breath. In addition, why do you, and the Xtian bibles leave out the beginning where it says “TO David”.
You certainly like to make accusations but are SO blinded by the pagan beliefs you are unable to comprehend the simplest of words. You have to justify it by saying the Satan preempted G-d in His plan by creating a pagan system that G-d Himself actually wanted. That is an act of desperation on your part.
The true Messiah Birthday…
”Indeed out of the Ruah holy, the one eternal Torah made flesh was delivered into this world the day of Shavuot-Pentecost the 6th of the month of Sivan-June to accomplish all justice. He appeared first to the last ones of the people the shepherds, for he came to give back the land to the humble ones as he gave it once to David the humble shepherd of Israel. Him the little lamb of Eloah given to the one Israel on the same day that the humble Moses received the written Torah on mount Sinai.”
Excerpt from the book: The little Book of the Apocalypse p.15
In the Greek text of the gospel of Luke we see clearly that Luke is referring to the 6th month when Gabriel appeared to Maryam.
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from Eloah unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth… (Luke, chap. 1)
The 6th month that Luke is talking about must be counted from the religious calendar of the Hebrew people. The first month of this calendar is the month of Nissan corresponding to the month of April according to the calendar from Enoch of blessed memory 7th patriarch from Adam. Interesting observation our present solar calendar is constituted of 365 days compared to Enoch total years on earth of 365. That is sign of the importance of Enoch in the counting of days according to the Eternal.
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years… (Genesis, chap. 5)
Therefore the 6th month corresponds to the month of mercy the month of Elul. The Messiah was born 9 months after the 6th month where the 6th month corresponds to the month of September. Counting 9 month after September brings us on the door of the month Sivan which corresponds to the month of June. It happens also that the 6th of Sivan in Hebrew calendar is the feast of Shavuot where the Eternal gave us the written Torah on mount Sinai.
Last sign in the book of the Apocalypse the Lamb in the Greek text refers to a little-lamb which confirms us that Yahshuo the Messiah was born late in the spring as all lamb are born in Spring to whom doesn’t know that sheep can only deliver in that period of the year.
Let us therefore comprehend that true Christianity can only be genuine and complete when its origin repose on the foundation of our Judaic heritage. For the one Messiah came to accomplish fully the Torah and the Prophets:
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. (Matthew, chap. 5)
Bless is he who comes in the name of Yahuweh יהוה Elohim
All that needs to be said here is that Xtianity Has NO Judaic heritage. Its heritage comes from Mithra and Zoroaster, along with a mixture of a few other religions. Where do you think the concept of a “lamb of god” actually comes from. Certainly NOT from a source in Judaism. The blind cannot see the origins of their beliefs in the same manner as when the Prophets spoke against ancient Israel and all their mixing of pagan religions. The Israelites of old weren’t worshiping just some pagan god of the time. They took those gods of paganism and wove them into proper Torah observance. In so doing they bastardized true Torah. Xtianity accomplished the same thing by taking parts of the pagan world and interwove those concepts into a new form of Torah. They were just the next generation of Jews who did as their fathers had done. Only those with TRUE Torah knowledge are able to see Through this charade. Those who lack Torah education are unable and unwilling to see until such time that veil is lifted from them.
Sharbano the concept of the innocent small-Lamb comes from Judaism when Moseh was commanded to eat it standing for Passover and where the blood of the Lamb was to be put on the door sides to protect all Israel…
That is not a pagan concept even if pagans where to imitate true Judaism that does not make it a false religion on the contrary that only proves that the satan wanting to imitate the true Religion he introduced concept revealed before the creation of our kind to introduce confusion…
Do some research for once. The use of “lamb of god” comes from pagan religions. You are blind to this knowledge.
Sharbano,
If it “comes” from pagan religions and was adopted into Christianity then you’d have to accept that it also was adopted into Judaism as noted by Lion during the first Passover of the Exodus while in Egypt.
Furthermore, to be consistent, you also must admit that the bull used in the first episode of idolatry which occurred at Mt Sinai was more than likely that of Apis bull god which shared power with and actually became “Ra”, the supreme god of Egypt.
The Israelites were struggling to leave paganism behind, but slipped back into what they knew when the going got rough.
That’s hardly an acknowledge of their god. Instead, to sacrifice Their god was an affront to the Egyptians.
No it wasn’t the bull god that the calf represented, except maybe to the Erev Rav. That calf came from the same vision that Ezekiel saw.
David, if the Israelites believed the lamb was sacred they would never have slaughtered it…and that was exactly the point: to show the Egyptians that the lamb was not sacred.
Furthermore, You have elevated the Satan to a god. This TOO, comes from the pagan religions. Now matter HOW you try to play it, you have copied pagan worship and are blind to the knowledge.
Cut and paste
http://eliyah-return.blogspot.com
EL
I asked you long time ago if you had a website. If you want people to read it just give the link.
http://eliyah-return.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-true-messiah-birthday.html
Good detective work, Larry.
Dina Larry I am not here to do the promotion of my blog. It is a question of respect toward your blog. But I highly appreciate the fact that you did free publicity.
Thank you!!
Baruch Hashem Adonai!!
EL
Please, no need to thank me, No Free Publicity intended.
PS, this is not my blog.
Sharbano you diverting you did not answer to my two questions here. You can not I understand. May some rabbi can like Misrahi or Singer… Ask them help for you are sinking in your ignorance. Or may be you will use the old trick of the book of pharisees: attack them on the fact they do not know Hebrew… But the news is that them too are ignorant of Hebrew it is the Chaldean Christian descendants of Israel that showed them ancient Hebrew.
Now here another try of what I wrote to show the world that you can not answer what you do not know…
Eliyah Lion says:
June 30, 2015 at 8:17 pm
Sharbano your scribes manipulated the true Torah. The proof of that lies in a post that I keep putting here and that each time you and your fellows divert for people not to see.
You and Yisroel never answered me about NUMBERS 12 verse 8:
Here is the Hebrew: פֶּה אֶל־פֶּה אֲדַבֶּר־בּוֹ וּמַרַאֶה וַלֹא בְחִידֹת וּתְמֻנַת יַהוָה יַבִּיט
”Mouth to mouth I will speak in(with) him and appearance(sight) not in mystery
In a form of YHWH he will look …”
WHO IS THAT FORM OF YHWH ??
WHAT MOUTH TO MOUTH MEANS??
Be honest try to respond and if you can admit your lies and deceits concerning all the passages relating to the Eternal Messiah the Dabar in the Flesh Master of Time and Space…
Repent and may be you will be part in the reign of Israel!!
You Had been answered and not only by me. I gave you the answers at the end of the reply. Since you don’t know Hebrew you wouldn’t know what is ancient or not. This fact is undeniable and Thus the accusation that Xtians taught the Hebrew. I suggest you get a Chumash with commentary by Rabbi S.R. Hirsch. He deals extensively with the Hebrew of Torah.
It’s not unusual for a person to keep bringing up questions that have been answered when that person has doubts about their own beliefs. It is especially evident when the person doesn’t take the conversation past that point. It has really showed its face with the account of Stephen. Since that deals such a blow to the religion it has resulted in the repetition of the same question already answered. You have little left for any argument.
Stephen case has been answered here is the proof but my questions were not:
June 8, 2015 at 1:32 pm
Shalom to all! Sharbano and Dina about your so-called contradiction… Let us confront it to the truth!
Genesis 46 the counting of 70 relatives to Yaakov
vs
Acts 7 v.14 where Stephen says they were 75
Very simple I did the math and there NO CONTRADICTION here. For Genesis 46 in the number 70 are not included the daughters nor the wives of Yaakov nor the wives of his sons.
Stephen refers to Yaakov relatives going to Egypt including the daughters + the wives but Joseph and his sons for they were in Egypt already.
Genesis 46 says: ”All the persons of the house of Jacob who went to Egypt were seventy.”
According to modern standard that statement is not true. The wives nor the daughters are included in this count.
Than you dare to criticize Stephen when he says 75: ”14 Then Joseph sent and called his father Jacob and all his relatives to him, seventy-five people.”
70-Joseph-Manasseh-Ephraim(already in Egypt)=67+4 wives+daughters might give us 75 for the exact numbers of daughters is not certain for Léah had many daughters the known one was Dinah + Aser daughter.
I find Stephen pretty well inspired taking the wives and the daughters into consideration. There is an evolution in the status of women in the NT… I would had included the wives also of the sons of Yaakov but is another topic… N’est-ce pas Dinah??
Eliyah Lion says:
June 15, 2015 at 9:41 pm
Yisroel taking the example of Abraham bowing down to the people of the land, show how poor you know our History. Abraham was from a pagan-idol worshipping family, ready to sacrifice his own son, bowing down to men… But Elohim in his patience taught him to get out of those practices. Elohim knew where he was coming from. You seem to have forgot.
Psalm 45 context is way way after Abraham and after Mosheh clear instructions. We should not bow down to any man. The word שָׁחָה means what it means. He does not suit your reading but nevertheless you did not dare to comment Psalm 45 for it goes against your misconceptions.
Now if you want to cut me out feel free. That is your liberty. Debates if you hold the truth will only reinforce you and sharpen your skill… but if you are lazy to do the battle it is of no use. Admit you are defeated not being able to counter claim with proof of Scriptures… For my part I would have witness to the truth. Enemy of the truth always want to make quiet those who speaks loudly, they are disturbed and pained by the fire!!
Now before you cut I will respond to Ezechiel 40 and beyond in response to Dina:
The sacrifice system to be restored concerns the Second Temple. Having been destroyed the New Temple is the Messianic Body of Yahushuo the Messiah the Dabar Elohim in the Flesh always coming and building His Temple-Church with living stones. Your sacrificial system is gone forever it is finish don’t you understand. When o you carnal minds will you transform your minds to spiritual mind, open your heart to the Master-Teacher only Him is the Way the Truth the Life for He is Elohim made man to elevate man to be elohim in the Elohim as written in our Sacred Scriptures and foretold of old.
Now concerning Stephen and Sichem in acts 7 in response to Sharbano:
The Tanakh is right and Acts is right. Stephen saying that Yaakov was buried there is true for Yaakov son Yosef was buried there. His seed indeed is buried there. Therefore the Ruah wanted to convey a special meaning to word proclaim by Stephen. Also could it be that Yaakov remains would have been transferred with those of his son Yosef later on… It might be. Nevertheless Yosef buried in Sichem is a testimony that Yaakov extension is surely there in the remains of his son Yosef.
There we are it was a pleasure to debate with you brothers and sisters. You have permitted me to bring you a testimony. Your sect of Judaism has put shades on your heart but the day that the shades will be pull out you will see the Sun of Justice shining upon you. I hope that you will then now how awesome Eloheinu is really…
Love you all and I pray for you all forgiving whatever sins you made against me and asking forgiveness if I was rude and fiery but I am what Elohim made me…
Shalom!
P.S.: Yisroel love your brothers Yehudim do not judge them and respect their conscience. Torah must be preached but Messiah must be recognized also. Unity is always better than division. We are near the day. Be hopeful and never let pride take your soul. Be aware and keep your heart pure!!
Another copy and paste?
Stephen didn’t say anything that you are alleging. You are adding the women on Your own. As was pointed out to you, ‘only 5 wives’. Your calculation takes into account only the number that gets you to the number YOU want.
As I said in the reply Before, the 70 is for a reason, which obviously you didn’t grasp.
E. Lion,
I am a Christian, and Yisroel has it right on this particular subject and you have it wrong.
You wrote:
Yisroel taking the example of Abraham bowing down to the people of the land, show how poor you know our History. Abraham was from a pagan-idol worshipping family, ready to sacrifice his own son, bowing down to men… But Elohim in his patience taught him to get out of those practices. Elohim knew where he was coming from. You seem to have forgot.
Psalm 45 context is way way after Abraham and after Mosheh clear instructions. We should not bow down to any man. The word שָׁחָה means what it means. He does not suit your reading but nevertheless you did not dare to comment Psalm 45 for it goes against your misconceptions.
My commentary:
There are 172 instances of the Hebrew word “Shachah” in the Hebrew Scriptures. A little over half refer to Shachah towards god or God. The rest refer to others such as man or angel. Some simply refer to bow down in other contexts such as bow (lie) on the bed.
This is by no means an all inclusive list. I’m just giving some example here of the many occurrences found in Scripture.
Bow down (Greek proskuneo and Hebrew Shachah) to man:
Matthew 18:26
“The servant fell on his knees [proskuneo] before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’
1 Kings 1:23
And they told the king, “Nathan the prophet is here.” So he went before the king and bowed [shachah] with his face to the ground.
2 Samuel 14:22
Joab fell with his face to the ground to pay him honor [shachah], and he blessed the king. Joab said, “Today your servant knows that he has found favor in your eyes, my lord the king, because the king has granted his servant’s request.”
1 Samuel 24:8
Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, “My lord the king!” When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down [shachah] and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
1 Kings 1:53
Then King Solomon sent men, and they brought him down from the altar. And Adonijah came and bowed [shachah] down to King Solomon, and Solomon said, “Go to your home.”
2 Chronicles 24:17
But after the death of Jehoiada the officials of Judah came and bowed down (Shachah) to the king, and the king listened to them.
Bow down (Shachah) to an angel:
Joshua 5:14
14 He replied, “Neither; but as commander of the army of the YHWH I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and prostrated (Shachah), and he said to him, “What do you command your servant, my lord?”
Bow down (Shachah) in other contexts:
1 Kings 1:47
“Moreover, the king’s servants came to bless our lord King David, saying, ‘May your God make the name of Solomon better than your name and his throne greater than your throne!’ And the king bowed (Shachah) himself on the bed.
David, if men bow down in the Tanakh like men did adulteries and all sort of sin that does not mean it is ok. I will not bow down to anyone except the Elohim that is the strict obedience to Torah observed by Yohan(John) and Peter the apostles, I am from that tradition:
8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” (Revelation 22)
The Angel said: Worship WHO?? The ELOHIM!!
The Torah does not forbid bowing to another human as a gesture of respect. See that you do not add or take away (Deuteronomy 4:2).
Okay, your Xtian text says THAT. How many angels in Torah said the SAME THING under the same circumstances. This deletes your supposition of bowing.
Dina your interpreatation is not strict but loose to justify sinful act. My obedience is from the Order of Eliyahu which is very strict. No bowing to anyone except The Elohim. Point final, capiche!!
And where is this “Order of Eliyahu”. Oh wait. It must be you that you speak of since no one ever heard of this order. I suppose its on the same par as the Illuminati. Hmmm. Illuminat – light. I think you mentioned Light. You must be Illuminati.
Your obedience is from the Order of Eliyahu; my obedience is to God. Final point, capiche?
E.L.
The angel informed John of John’s status, that he was “a fellow servant.” meaning he was of equal rank with John and his comrades, the prophets as representatives of God. In the context where he was in Revelation, which was in the presence of God, he was not to bow down to his fellow servants of equal rank such as the angel but to only bow down to God.
There is no point in bowing down to a representative of God who is of equal rank nor is there any point to bow to a representative of God who is of a higher rank when God is in the immediate presence.
In both cases one should only bow down to God.
Where is you citation that the act of bowing down to a man is sin?
Hi E.L.,
A few more thoughts on the subject of bowing down.
It has occurred to me that you are making a basic error in bible analysis.
You are failing to account for and differentiate between that which is “prescriptive” and that which is “descriptive.” That which is prescriptive in nature is a directive, command, or instruction for us to follow such as when Peter and Paul speak of giving to each the respect and honor they are due. But that which is descriptive is not necessarily directive in nature but can be in certain circumstances depending on the context and original intent for application.
Nearly half of the bible is of narrative form, telling a story, and therefore is descriptive in nature.
You’ve taken the passage in Revelation regarding the angel and John which is descriptive in nature and assumed it is an absolute directive for all times and in all circumstances.
The fact remains there is not a single verse which prohibits the bowing down to man, or angels in any or all circumstances.
Furthermore there are verses such as Romans 13:7 and 1 Peter 2:17 which are prescriptive, meaning a directive which must be followed and DO require that we give proper respect to each man as is due.
In 1 Peter 2:17 he even mentions showing honor to the Emperor. That my friend REQUIRES the bowing down because that was the law and that would be the proper way to honor the Emperor. A failure to honor the Emperor was punishable by death. Peter was saying just the opposite. Honor the Emperor.
David I am well aware of the difference between descriptive and prescriptive. But your analysis and your counting of history is not accurate.
This is not a Christian site and I do not think it is proper to debate on these things: one thing though not all Christian bow down to emperors you should re-look your history… When you know that emperors were self proclaimed gods…Therefore no true Christian bow to them which always put them in precarious situation followed with waves of persecution from authorities.
Peter and Paul prescriptions was not concerning bowing but honor which authorities must receive to a certain degree.
Note that the angel intervention toward John was prescriptive not descriptive. Plus
“25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26 But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.” (Acts 10)
Peter is formal in his intervention and it is prescriptive to all Christian as being one of the most influential Apostle. Now how do you know that the popes of Rome are not true Apostle by what Peter did. Pope like people to bow to them or they do not stop it. Real Apostles and real Christian and all Torah observant do not bow to any man. They bow only to the one Elohim.That is a sign of who is fearing YHWH and who likes to be honored…
Hi E.L.
Actually you are mistaken on descriptive/prescriptive. The passage of the angel and John in Revelation and Peter and Cornelius is a narrative of a larger story line. Narratives of stories are descriptive by their very nature.
As I noted above one can glean prescriptive lessons from a narrative story line, but you also have to be careful not to over apply in too broad a sense what is only appropriate in a limited sense.
And you are making the above noted mistake
There are times when it is not appropriate to honor or “worship” someone. God says that it is wrong to bow down before (shachah; worship) other gods (Exod. 23:24). That makes perfect sense. How could a person with any sincerity honor both God and demons?
Your argument against honoring the emperor doesn’t fly if the Emperor is not a self-proclaimed god. In the case of an emperor who is NOT a god, one would be in violation of the “prescriptive” instruction of Paul and Peter if you did not honor him. And during those times in question, “honor” usually entailed “bowing down.”
A different case involved Peter, who recognized that it was not appropriate for Cornelius to bow down to (proskuneo; worship) him, even though Cornelius respected Peter. Peter felt he was not superior to Cornelius, and accepting the worship would have sent the wrong message to Cornelius, so he stopped him (Acts 10:25 and 26). Similarly, the angel stopped John from “worshipping” him. John felt the angel was superior and started to “worship” him. The angel had to correct him and remind him that the angel was only a “fellow servant” (Rev. 22:8 and 9).
Sharbano it must be more secret than the Illuminati for it seems many know who they are but you never heard of my Order… Hmmm!
Illuminati has nothing secret for they come from the same order as the pope of Rome. Many false Jews are from this society. They have actually penetrated your religion and the Roman church and all the sects of Protestantism. They are the workers of Babylon to whom you bow and to whom we are forbidden to bow.
Read the combat of Eliyahu from Old against Baal you will may be understand their power. But my beloved is YHWH and his Messiah Eternal and the ALL Beautiful Shakhinah.
Sharbano the Schema Israel applies to Israel:
Schema Israel: YHWH Eloheinu, YHWH Ehad !!
YHWH ONE
HE is the ONE ESSENCE THE SOURCE
From HIM proceeds his RUAH HOLY
From HIM is begotten his SON in his RUAH HOLY
We the sons of El-Elyon: we proclaim the UNITY the Uniqueness the Oneness of our FATHER
We the sons recognize the SON for through Him we Commune to the Most High
We the beloved recognize from Whom we are transformed and borne for The Eternal Ruah is our MOTHER
We are the ones chosen before the foundation of the world the elect in the Image of Elohim who will reign in the age to come…
Baruch YHWH now and forever!!
Yep, More spiritual adultery.
EL
I really get a kick out of the way you preach, do you have a you tube channel? Your blog site says you do……..
Dina your obedience is to whom? Saying to God means what? Identify your god?
My obedience is to YHWH and His Messiah YAHUSHUO and to the Eternal Ruah to the One Elohim. I know his Name you do not.
You have been led astray by your small sect and like all sect you think you know the truth but the proof that you are far from the truth lies in the fact that you do not even know the Holy Name. Banish by decree till the day you will say:
Bless is He who come in the Name of YHWH
Then you will become truly obedient to Elohei Israel
So you admit you swear allegiance to THREE entities, and Not One. You deny the words of Torah and the Shema. You have succumbed to the same ideology of those of ancient times whereby they weren’t satisfied nor fulfilled in the worship of the One G-d. They desired and needed the additional support of a god of many parts. This desire was so predominant that they would go to any extent to fulfill that need. Thus Hashem became angry that they committed adultery with their idolatry. The concept of adultery is unfaithfulness to a loved one and to share allegiance TO G-d, with others, constitutes that unfaithfulness. This is the error you are making.
EL
Sorry for interrupting but just how big is your sect? Looking at your blog you have no members as of yet?
Sharbano except that the highest in the Old Covenant does not even equal the least in the New. Meaning that in the Old age man bow down for they were slaves in the New Covenant men are becoming sons of the Elohim by Grace to those who have the Faith to those the angel can not ask them to bow for in the Resurrection they will reign even higher than the angels… Capiche!!
P.S.: I doubt that you will understand for you are still an infant…
You have shown you were Unable to understand the context. It has nothing to do with covenants. This must be the Source of Your Difficulty in understanding Torah truths.