Why I Left Jesus – by Fred

1000 Verses - a project of Judaism Resources

To family and friends,
It seems that we are in a kind of “day of reckoning”: right now, with people making firm decisions about their lives and lifestyles, and then pronouncing such changes and affirmations openly. I feel it is time for me to make a proclamation myself and clear the air, lest rumors fly and inaccuracies occur in the speculative reporting of the situation.
Anyone who knows me also knows I am a pretty religious person. Make no mistake, things of a spiritual nature have always been important to me, as well as the idea of “doing the right thing” whenever I could, according to the knowledge I had at the time. This has been a struggle for me, since all people want to be happy, myself being no exception. However, there has always been a tension in my soul between pursuing happiness and pursuing meaning. One does not…

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13 Responses to Why I Left Jesus – by Fred

  1. CP says:

    I am happy for Fred; it appears he has finally found contentment and meaning, l’chaim! Who am I to say he now has an appointed a place in the world to come or that he denied Yeshua and his appointed place is Gehenna – such declarations do not belong to mere mortals. I can only empathize with his journey. Apparently we’ve traveled some of the same paths since I’ve visited some of the same rest stops he describes. I’m not so arrogant to say Fred has veered off the path, perhaps he is just a faster walker. However he has made a decision for which I currently see no reason for making; ‘the denial of Yeshua’.

    Fred writes; “Happiness can be stolen from you, but meaning never can be.”. Yet it seems the true meaning of Yeshua was indeed stolen from him. Fred continues; “Christianity was very “Christ-centered”, but Jesus seemed more “God-centered”, at least in the Synoptic Gospels. I got many different answers for this…”
    What am I missing here? The answer seems obvious; Christians misrepresent Yeshua. While I agree this is a valid reason for rejecting Christianity, it is certainly not a good reason to reject Yeshua.

    I’ve seen this time and time again; a person starts to question Christianity, they begin to discover lie after lie. After starting to meticulously research each lie they get to a point, where they just say the heck with it, its all wrong, throwing out Yeshua with the bath water – without researching to the very end.

    According to the information shared above, this is where my path differs from Fred’s. We’ve researched and denied the same Christian fables, however my research has brought me face to face with Yeshua, a Pharisaical Jewish Rabbi. I don’t think this can be denied. I’ve since found Orthodox Rabbis who claim the same thing and occasionally find another to add to the list.

    Here is a list to why I cannot throw the baby out with the bath water:
    1) Yeshua changed the world, showing up at a most important time – 40 years before the Second Temple destruction.

    2) Yeshua’s primary message was a call to repentance; a heartfelt return to Torah and Hashem.

    3) A number of Orthodox Rabbis endorse him as a righteous teacher; a Pharisaical Rabbi, who used both the Written and Oral Torah.

    4) Yeshua lived what he taught, even through torture to a horrific death.

    5) Yeshua is misrepresented by Christianity and the majority of Jewish religious leaders have rejected Christianity’s representation, but never researched Yeshua for themselves.

    6) I’ve personally witnessed firsthand the redemptive power of Yeshua’s Torah teachings and the promised Spirit. Even 2000 years later his message is still bringing many exiles back to Torah and is still taking Torah to the World.

    7) The question of ultimate Messiahship is a moot point; salvation comes from following Hashem’s instructions and living in right relationship with HIM. It is Hashem who anoints the Messiah, not man. When it comes to Yeshua both Jew and Christian claim they already know if he is “the” Messiah, but in reality both will have to wait and see.

  2. Eleazar says:

    You invalidated your argument in the first sentence.

    “1) Yeshua changed the world, showing up at a most important time – 40 years before the Second Temple destruction.”

    “Yeshua”, at least the man as you believe he existed, did not change the world. The “lie upon lie”, founded upon paganism, Christianity that you reject did. Yeshua’s real teachings, and his real Jewish identity, died with the temple and the Ebionites. All you have left is a partial story with a ton of interpolations, mistranslations and misapplications of Tanakh. At this point there is no way to recapture the full truth of who Yeshua was or even what he really taught or did. All you can do is pick and choose which NT texts you want to create “your own…personal….Jesus” out of and ignore the rest.

    I concluded after years of research that Christianity is a zero sum game. All or nothing. Jesus either was who the NT says he was or he wasn’t. The gospel either works the way the NT says or it doesn’t. You are either justified and sanctified by a human sacrifice or you aren’t. Anything else is permanently chasing your tail.

    • Concerned Reader says:

      What am I missing here? The answer seems obvious; Christians misrepresent Yeshua. While I agree this is a valid reason for rejecting Christianity, it is certainly not a good reason to reject Yeshua.

      CP, the problem is best described this way. Is a person better served by clinging to a message shared in common between Jews and Christians, or by allegiance to a man (Yeshua) about whom much agreed disagreement exists?

      I would argue that any Jew who doesnt believe in the Nazarene as Moshiach still comprehends some of the ethical portions of his teaching to such an extent that being declared a “follower of Yeshua” has no actual meaning in daily life. A Jew can believe in the ethic if Jesus, or the ethic of the rebbe, and be faithful to that ethic without saying “you must accept the person.”

      Declaring yourself a follower of Jesus has no more meaning than claiming to be a follower of Moses. Substance matters over creed or confession.

      Im not a follower of the Nazrene for these reasons.

      1. What the najority thinks about him is either wrong, or irrelevant to the content of his Torah teaching.

      2. Even if I could build a case for Christology from Jewish sources, knowledge and acceptance of it would have no bearing on me being a deacent human.

      3. At the same time people say “you must believe in Jesus” they say “works of the law dont matter.” Works of the law (as Paul defined it) was covenant identity markers. If works of law ( ie covenant identiy markers like Circumcision) dont make you righteous, then neither can the confession or cleaving to Yeshua declare you righteous.

      All abyone can do is live the message we share in common, and that life of ethics is independent of acknowkedging a person, Jesus or otherwise.

  3. Dina says:

    Imagine if someone walks into your house. He offends you. You tell him to leave and please not come back. Yet he keeps waltzing into your house, preaching his piece, and waltzing back out again, without permission.

    What would you say about such a person?

    Rabbi B.’s tolerance of such rudeness is admirable.

    • Dina says:

      This person has not apologized for his offensive anti-Semitic comments about the people of Israel nor has he indicated any willingness to engage in constructive dialogue but rather to preach to the masses. Rabbi B. has said that an apology and willingness to listen were required for him to be allowed to come back.

      • RT says:

        Agreed, that’s why we should not answer his comments 🙂

        • Dina says:

          Good point, RT.

          • Eleazar says:

            I am not trying to answer CP, per se’, but his points, some of which may be raised by others as well. I am responding to basic apologetic arguments made by the Hebrew roots/messianic movement. Even if CP will not listen, other “lurkers” might.

            Cp, and those who share his views believe on one hand Jesus “changed the world”, but on the other hand the Jesus who “changed the world” is not the one anti-trinitarian Messianics believe ever existed. In other words, it was Constantine and the church that had an influence over the world, not Jesus or “Yeshua” himself. And the Jesus of Constantine was the “full deity”, uncreated godman of Pauline Christianity, not the otherwise obscure Torah preacher of the Messianic’s rationale. Without the trinitarian, neo-pagan,virgin-birthed godman of Catholicism, the Messianic/Hebrew Roots “Yeshua” would be virtually unknown own to all but a handful of Mideast historians. Even still, the Torah-teaching Yeshua that CP preaches did or said nothing outstanding or worthy of veneration that others of his generation did not also do or say. Most of his famous teachings about Torah can be found in other sources, by different authors.

          • RT says:

            Probably that trinitarian, neo-pagan,virgin-birthed godman of Catholicism, the Messianic/Hebrew Roots “Yeshua” lie from Paul was used by Paul to increase Yeshua’s glory?

            For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, as Paul said…

            Today, most Christians are angry with the mega-church lies that brings forth thousands of Christians, maybe that also Paul would agree?

            I agree with you Eleazar, but I think that if we generally answer CP’s comments, he will use it to keep on posting. If we ignore him, he will leave and not come back.

          • Dina says:

            I agree, RT. He’s been disinvited, but he has refused to leave. Such shameless behavior should not be allowed. He should be blocked.

  4. RT says:

    CP, you have been asked not to post comments here anymore… Here is R’B’s, the owner of the blog, response to you in case you forgot:

    “CP You’ve been asked not to comment – not because we “fear” you but because you have demonstrated that you do not believe in a two way conversation. You have demonstrated your lack of belief in a two way conversation yet again. Every point that Dr. Brown raised has been refuted in writing – on this blog – several times over. If you were interested in hearing the testimony of God’s witness – it is here for you to read. But since you have no interest in interacting – only one way preaching – I ask you again – keep out. 1000 Verses – a project of Judaism Resources wrote: >”

    I am not debating if you are right to be here or not. You could post anything you want if you were invited, but since you have been asked to leave, please do. Nothing personal, but you have exasperated almost everybody in this blog and most think your comments are offensive and anti-Semite. I am not here to judge if they are or not, or if you are willing to listen to others or not. Written communication is not the best way to achieve proper understanding of someone else feeling and many times the intent is not understood by the other. But this is over the point, since you have been asked to leave, the fact that your comments are offensive or not is irrelevant. I am not the owner of that blog, neither Dina. She only reiterate the fact that Rabbi B asked you to leave or at least apologize. I do not think R’B asked you to apologize anyway, so in a way she asked less of you. But as long as you have not done so, and you were asked to leave, you should respect other’s people. Remember Jesus saying “Do to other as you want them do to you”. Well, that seem like you could work on that…

  5. Dina says:

    Hi everyone,

    Here’s a link to a heartwarming and inspiring article I wanted to share before Shabbat. I’m not sure you can access it if you aren’t a subscriber to Commentary, but I think they let you read a few articles for free.

    The main idea is that when Christians see Orthodox Jews in action, they begin to understand our love for God’s laws.


    Enjoy! And Shabbat Shalom!

  6. I have been privileged to be an observor in this great blog, enjoying the true spirit of God’ people who are searching for truth. I have discovered many pagan elements in Christendom from the intellectuals’ biblical and reasonable arguments such as CP, Dina, and Concerned Reader and of course Rabbi B’ short and concise Bible teaching!
    I don’t want to see my Jewish brothers and sisters give up the good battle!
    Being silent is good and wise but forcing somebody to be silent is not good.

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